Typo. Teddi wasn’t if she was facing the fire, or facing away from her.
Not a Typo. I’m a decade older than my supposed peers, and it seems I had more control over my person than they do before I had control over my bladder. I read that twice to get this meaning. I’m a decade older than my supposed peers, and it seems I had more control over my person before I had control over my bladder than they do now.
That still doesn't read smoothly, so it's not a suggestion. :-)
The session seems to center a lot on Dee's homelife instead of her school problems. From our view, that is fine since we know a fair amount about her school problems and not so much about home, but I wonder if that is how a session really ought to go.
Well (speaking as an Australian doing a clinical psychology degree) the point of a therapy session is to talk about whatever happens to be on the patient's mind. It seems that Dee's homelife has been worrying her lately, so it's perfectly appropriate for a therapy session to be focusing on that.
This chapter was sooo good. I love Dee. She's absolutely wonderful. I'd love to see "a day in the life of Dee" as a bonus story, especially her thought process during her classes.
As a rather porny alternative, I'd also love to see Amaranth's "work" day.
I do like Dee, but I also am growing to dislike her culture, as I'm growing to dislike elves in general. Dee complains about how judgmental everyone else is of her culture, while also decrying the 'Barbarism' she is exposed to every day... and I don't think she's referring to the one-time event of being exposed to the idea that a place like 'Tender Mercy's' exists (from what I remember, her immediate conclusion upon hearing of the place was to assume that such things as sentient beings being butchered for pleasure and profit was a common thing among the surface dwellers.) Teddi is acting as a good lens for turning Deep Elf culture into something Pax natives can understand, but Dee needs to come to terms with the idea that if she's going to reside in a foreign land with a foreign culture she's going to have to give them some benefit of the doubt.
And realize her own isn't unassailably infallable. Pax (and our own for that matter) culture makes no allowance for 'Halfkind', they are forced to make do trying to fit their square pegs into the round holes everyone else uses. Dee's culture however does make square holes for those square pegs, off to the side and out of everyone's way, and slightly elevated so everyone can admire their squareness.
I'm also thinking Dee's 'love' for Deshah might be shallower than she wants to admit.
I think that when Dee refers to barbarism, she's talking about the way people treat each other- specifically regarding privacy and the lack of, how to put it... the smooth waves of proper consideration and respect in speech and action.
At least it part the 'every day' is likely exaggerated, but I get the feeling that while we might focus on the fighting and so forth, for Dee it's just as much the fact that there's a distinct lack of diplomacy or formality in the day to day interactions. She's willing to accept it without complaint (most of the time) but at the same time it will stand out to her for the sheer lack of decorum that she's used to. I think the closest comparison may be that what Dee sees around her is perhaps the movie Idiocracy.
As for her love of Deshah, I think it's likely that her relationship and motivations there would be difficult to explore in the space allotted for commenting, let alone the amount of time I have available for such things.
I'm sure you're tired of hearing this, but I would love to donate money - as soon as the regular and unfailing updates promised each time you ask for donations are delivered. I don't think that not being able to update daily all the time is bad, per se, but when a promise is made and not delivered on, I've got a problem with that. Heck, you wouldn't have to update more in order to get me to donate - you'd just have to change the announced schedule to fewer weekly updates, and make those.
You might be surprised at how few people have said that.
I'm not saying nobody has, but what's important to one person is not what's important to everybody, which is why I finally decided to a survey to find out the broad trend. If I did what you suggest and, say, went to three updates a week, I'd have a number of pissed people saying "How come you don't update as often as you used to? Who cares WHEN they come, I want more story and if it's a pleasant surprise, so be it." just as right now I have people saying "You should just schedule fewer updates if you can't do it consistently."
Whose money should I chase? I guess if I had a big marketing department I could figure out which group has the higher income and is more willing to spend money or something, but I don't.
But you're right that I shouldn't promise and then not deliver... especially when what I'm promising doesn't seem that important to most of the people who do donate. You might notice my latest reminder doesn't make any such promise. I ask people to send money so I can keep writing for them. That's it. No greater promise than the fact that I'll keep the story/stories going. At the end of the day, that is my job. That's what I get paid for, that there will always be more to read about characters and worlds that people enjoy.
What the survey's telling me so far is that for most people, the important thing is that the updates are worth reading when they do arrive... neither consistent delivery nor frequent delivery are the biggest priorities, which means there's room to look for a compromise between them. If you read the preamble to this survey, you might have noticed that I'm planning on reworking the schedule based on the results.
So maybe you'll end up happy anyway... and maybe you'll send money as a result, and maybe somebody else who doesn't like the change will choose not to as a result. I don't think it's productive for me to think of every reader who doesn't pay in as lost money, though. If I were going to do that, I'd just charge up front.
This chapter, along with the one where we hear that Dehsah's being punished for theft of black plums and that it's "impossible to truly punish" Dehsah, make me REALLY curious about her as a person. I've always found her relationship with Dee to be one of the more disturbing things about Dee (who's my favorite MU character, hands down)-- or maybe just that it points up the things about Dee that I find less than admirable: her extremely hierarchical mindset and her arrogance about her own privilege within that hierarchy.
We don't see her acting as arrogant and privileged people normally do in our society because, as she says, her self-control is exponentially more developed than that of pretty much any surface dweller we've seen, so she preserves her courtesy even in the face of the grossest discourtesies and "barbarisms" of others. In addition, there's the old saying "it ain't bragging (or arrogance) if it's true"-- and since Dee actually is better than most other characters, the fact that she believes she's better is less off-putting than it might otherwise be. But still, she has a huge blind spot when it comes to how her privilege in society has influenced her relationships (with Darek, a male; Alea, a penniless orphan; and Dehsah, an "ornament") and that's most off-putting when it comes to her relationship with Dehsah, who is:
-Dee's former wet nurse -vastly Dee's elder -the "possession" of Dee's house, and a possession who could easily have been subjected to permanent crippling as a matter of course if she'd been born at the wrong time -pretty much obligated to serve Dee as Dee sees fit -currently abandoned, by the woman who originally elevated her beyond her "proper" sphere, to a society that probably sees that elevation as perverse and blames it at least partly on Dehsah
All these things-- the structure, if you will, of her relationship with Dee-- have perhaps prevented me from wondering about Dehsah as a person. But Dee's describing her (with Teddi's help) as "quirky" suddenly makes me want to know more about her personality. And like Dee a little more, too, for seeming to miss Dehsah as a person, and not just an ornamental possession (the whole "my pretty Dehsah" locution is probably the only one of Dee's that consistently skeeves me out).
Anyway, I'd love to see another Other Tale set in Dee's home and focusing on Dehsah.
Oh, and I wholeheartedly second whoever said that EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN HARLOWE needs weekly meetings with Teddi. Weekly, at least.
"Technically, the work programs are supposed to be equal opportunity" When you use the words "technically" and "supposed to" in the same sentence, I think it's a pretty good indicator that things aren't as they should be.
I enjoyed this, especially Teddi having to keep reminding Dee that it's okay to talk about things.
The one thing that made me curious was Teddi's reaction to the idea of circumcision - she knew immediately what it was. So now I wonder how often it is done on the surface, and whther there is a religion that is to Khersis as Judaism is to Christianity.
Male circumcision is almost as widely practiced in Islam as it is in Judaism, being considered as sunnah by many Muslims. It may have been practiced by the ancient Egyptians and been picked up from them by the Israelites during the Captivity. It was certainly a part of the manhood initiation rituals of many African cultures long before any European missionaries arrived, as was also the case in Pacific Islander and Australian aboriginal groups. Some Oriental Orthodox and African Christian churches also practice circumcision.
Such a tradition need not be tied to religion and may be dictated just as much by practicality (there's some hygienic rationale) or some sense of machismo (as appears to be the case here) for enduring such a rite of passage. Dee never mentioned or invoked her goddess in this regard, as she surely would have done had it had any religious significance.
OT from the story, but I didn't even realise you had a subscription donation until I read this post. Very happy to sign up for subscription donation, requires less though and reassures me that I'm contributing :)
Me neither. I probably will sign up for it, at least in a while when I dig myself out of the financial hole I'm in at the moment.
But it would really make me happy if among the options of what to be listed as (MU Alumni, 4B Registrant, etc.) was something Tribe-related. I know, I know, it hasn't had any updates for a while, but I continue to live in hope.
And hey, last time I checked the survey results, it was ranking higher in readership than Void Dogs or Star Harbor Nights! Not by much, but still...!
The second paragraph... "She was sitting on the floor in front of the hearth, her face towards the fireplace. Teddi wasn’t (**) if she was facing the fire, or facing away from her."
I would be more likely to donate if I didn't think you were overly defensive to criticism of your story/characters.
You are not your writing. Please don't take criticism of it personally. I am a writer. I am a slam poet. People are going to disagree with my style and politics. I can't let that get to me, and I have to keep writing. You too, have to not let people's opinions of your work wear you down. You have to do what you want to do and not let other people stop you. I appreciate that. But when you blow off the readers who intensely dislike Amaranth or who get frustrated with your lack of updates or criticize something of the story, to the point of being snarky and mean to someone who just wants to comment an opinion different than adoration, you are going beyond being self-empowering and just being defensive and lashing out. I have been reading your story ever since I saw it on Something Positive, and I will keep reading it. I will tell other people about it, about the things I like and don't like. But I don't like being treated as if I'm attacking you when I'm expressing a negative opinion.
to the point of being snarky and mean to someone who just wants to comment an opinion different than adoration, you are going beyond being self-empowering and just being defensive and lashing out.
If this were true, I would never be doing anything besides being snarky and mean because I don't think I've yet written anything that's been universally adored. I pretty much only respond to people who argue for a change in the work ("You need to get rid of these chapters because nobody likes them!"), and that's to point out that other people feel differently and somebody probably hates whatever their favorite part of the story is.
I don't see that as defending my work or myself so much as defending the interests of all my readers.
I'd appreciate it if you could clarify what you mean by saying I've blown off people who dislike Amaranth... unless you mean that I never respond to their comments?
That's kind of weird since the rest of your comment is about the idea that I jump on people who don't like my stuff, but I don't know what else you could be talking about. I have a set policy on that: I don't comment on people's "takes" on a character, good or bad, because I'm not designing characters to be liked, I'm making them as people and letting readers take them as they will.
As for the rest? It's a tightrope. If I respond, DEFENSIVE. If I don't, DISMISSIVE. I personally think it's more respectful to address people's concerns than to give them the cold shoulder.
Right now I've got an email in my inbox from somebody who says I should stop posting explanations for the hectic scheduling because that's just making excuses and it's insulting.
Three emails up in the list from that is another one saying that it's okay when the schedule's a mess but I should make sure I explain why more often.
In responding to both of them, I'm going to mention the other's. Maybe they'll take this as me saying "You're wrong and here's proof.", as me being defensive and dismissive towards them...
...but I don't really see how else to not dismiss wide swaths of people if I don't keep everybody's opinions in view.
QUOTE FROM AE: **...You might have noticed I've never told anybody who had either of those opinions or anything in between that they were wrong or had to keep them to themselves...**
So, AE, that *wasn't* you that called one of your readers -- and I quote -- a "cockhole" because he persisted in/insisted on referring to Steff as "he"?
Actually, it *was* you....
And that's why I can't agree with your quote. I think calling someone a cockhole because of his expressed opinions does in fact rise to the level of telling [someone] that they were wrong or had to keep it to themselves.
That was several months ago -- before the comments purge -- but the insult was vivid and ugly enough that it's stuck with me. And no, I *can't* refer you to the exchange in question (lost when the comments were discarded)...but equally, I *can't* be the only reader who remembers it, if you feel inclined to ask around.
You do have crazy buttons...as do we all...but you're not above castigating and berating occasional readers for comments you find personally offensive. Saying "I never" or "I wouldn't" try to control your readers' expressed opinions of your characters is untrue and disingenuous -- and I find *that* disrespectful.
Yeah, I remember you. You're the person who ignored everything I said on the subject EXCEPT cockhole in order to claim I was trying to protect the feelings of a fictional character over those of real readers.
I say again:
Never have. Never would.
"You might have noticed I've never told anybody who had either of those opinions [from 'poor girl who can't find acceptance in society so lashes out' to 'fucked up self destructive cross breed cross dresser with no real sense of identity to begin with] or anything in between that they were wrong or had to keep them to themselves."
Never have. Never would.
I made ONE rule, for the personal comfort and dignity of my transgendered readers who were feeling insulted and alienated by the use of pronouns, and when a bunch of people didn't get it and didn't feel following that ONE rule, I gave 'em both barrels.
I didn't say they had to accept any opinion. I didn't say they weren't allowed to express their opinion of Steff. I said they had to use the pronouns that were appropriate for Steff's intended gender presentation.
Some of the people who were calling Steff "he" were very pointedly doing so not because of any well-thought out analysis of Steff's identity but from a point of view that biological sex is the sole determination of gender and that will not go on a board that bears my name. I couldn't very well say "only call Steff 'he' if you're being analytic rather than transphobic."
ONE rule. ONE rule about one of the smallest parts of speech in the English language. People can't follow that, people insist on behaving in a way that is insulting to a swath of population that 1) faces real oppression and 2) makes up a nice chunk of my readership, I'm going to insult them (since they don't care who they insult) and tell them to shut the fuck up.
Yes, AE, I read all that the first time you posted it. I didn't agree with what you said then, and I don't agree with it now. And no, I didn't *ignore* everything but the grotesque insult you were throwing around, but it -- and the loss of control that it reflected -- was shocking enough to me to overshadow your avowed purpose.
I wish I could have let this go, but an echo of that exchange has cropped up again...and it bothers me. A lot.
The character of Steff, in your story, is genetically male, possesses a penis and wants to have intercourse *using* that penis. You do not have Steff treating the penis as an alien body part, an aberration or a viscerally unwelcome reminder of the mistake that nature made in shaping "her" body. Steff likes having -- and using -- a penis.
Women do not centre their sexuality around having a penis. In your writing, Steff does. *I* can't see Steff as female. I see him as male.
A moment, please, before you erupt at the forbidden pronoun.
I have Turner's Syndrome. Yes, really. Technically, that makes me "intersex", even if it's a case of an incomplete X....
And yes, I was lucky; Turner's can be a lot worse in its manifestations. And NO, it doesn't have anything to do with causing mental retardation. I'm 5'3" and 180lbs -- so I could be doing better -- but my heart's sound (I have a heart murmur, but that's hardly exclusive to Turner's Syndrome patients), and I'm only having to take thyroid meds and estrogen -- so I could be doing a lot worse, too.
No, I can't have children...but my husband and I are pretty well past that age now anyway.
I'm not asking for your sympathy, AE -- but as someone who *is* intersexed, I also don't want you "defending" me. I don't want you hurling obscenities at other people for "my" sake or on "my" behalf; I can fight my own damn battles, thank you very much, and this one wouldn't have been worth my attention, if you hadn't started swearing and spewing vitriol at someone I thought actually had a point.
You have to get over your notion of "intersex" being a monolithic phenomenon, AE. We're not all the same. I'm a person, who happens to have a damaged chromosome. I know people who happen to be gay, or happen to be transgender. Like *me*, they're people first and everything else second. That's what we've chosen. And while you might be a spokesperson for some intersex people, or even for many, you don't speak for me.
So are intersex people who think Steff comes across as male allowed to call him "he"...or not? Or are we guilty of being insulting to intersex readers as well if we do?
I'm not AE, but no, by the rules, you're not allowed to call Steff a "he". I don't recall any Turner's Exemption to that rule.
And considering the number of transgender people who do consider themselves to be in permanent transition...including those who don't consider their bodies aberrant, only not in line with their gender identity...and the cis women who do center their sexuality around being the penetrator, I think your assertions are kind of absurd, even if you do have Turner's. Are my transfolk not really trans if they don't spend every minute of every day wanting their genitals corrected? Are they not really trans if they still have sex using the genitals they've got? Or are they only not really trans if they don't intend to change them? Because I know a couple who would, by your definitions as stated above, not deserve to be called by the pronouns they prefer...but there's quite a few people, trans AND cis, who would get allllll over you if you suggested that your personal definitions should supplant their wishes when it comes to referring to their gender, not least because it's, well, damn rude, and not your call.
I mean, shit, I get pissed off when people call me the diminutives of my given name, because they aren't my name. I can't imagine how infuriating it would be to be called out of both my name and my gender, irrespective of my biological sex, because someone thought I wasn't sufficiently detached from the body I've got to qualify to call myself by my preferred gender pronoun. To assume that you know the proper criteria by which someone can be adjudged trans enough to deserve respectful address is awfully presumptuous on your part, if you want to know the truth.
Nothing makes it somehow "OK" to call people out of their preferred form of address. Admittedly, when the person in question is fictional, it's a little harder to call foul...unless you think back to the transgender (and cisgender) readers who thanked AE for putting a stop to that practice because it made them uncomfortable.
Please, if you're going to participate in the conversation further, use the "reply" link on the individual post to which you are responding. Otherwise, each new comment you make is a separate thread, not connected to any other.
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February 27 2009, 08:30:48 UTC 3 years ago
I wonder if we could get every inhabitant of that floor of Harlowe queued up for sessions with Teddi?
February 27 2009, 18:47:54 UTC 3 years ago
How about EVERYONE has sessions with Teddi, though, not just the non-humans.
February 27 2009, 08:35:39 UTC 3 years ago Edited: February 27 2009, 08:54:35 UTC
Typos
She has limited powers, which she rarely uses, though she it seems she is not below overreaching them when she finally stirs herself to act.I have not yet encountered anyway who gave any indication that they viewed their resident advisor as a figure of real authority
After so many millennia, I suppose they do have roles a sort
I do feel that taking on greater my duties in the temple would make it less likely
though his union with me is likely to make him [extra line break]
more ‘fashionable’ than that.”
February 27 2009, 13:05:01 UTC 3 years ago
Re: Typos
Typo.Teddi wasn’t if she was facing the fire, or facing away from her.
Not a Typo.
I’m a decade older than my supposed peers, and it seems I had more control over my person than they do before I had control over my bladder.
I read that twice to get this meaning.
I’m a decade older than my supposed peers, and it seems I had more control over my person before I had control over my bladder than they do now.
That still doesn't read smoothly, so it's not a suggestion. :-)
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February 27 2009, 08:44:32 UTC 3 years ago
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February 27 2009, 08:58:27 UTC 3 years ago
As a rather porny alternative, I'd also love to see Amaranth's "work" day.
February 27 2009, 09:45:10 UTC 3 years ago
And realize her own isn't unassailably infallable. Pax (and our own for that matter) culture makes no allowance for 'Halfkind', they are forced to make do trying to fit their square pegs into the round holes everyone else uses. Dee's culture however does make square holes for those square pegs, off to the side and out of everyone's way, and slightly elevated so everyone can admire their squareness.
I'm also thinking Dee's 'love' for Deshah might be shallower than she wants to admit.
February 27 2009, 12:40:20 UTC 3 years ago
At least it part the 'every day' is likely exaggerated, but I get the feeling that while we might focus on the fighting and so forth, for Dee it's just as much the fact that there's a distinct lack of diplomacy or formality in the day to day interactions. She's willing to accept it without complaint (most of the time) but at the same time it will stand out to her for the sheer lack of decorum that she's used to. I think the closest comparison may be that what Dee sees around her is perhaps the movie Idiocracy.
As for her love of Deshah, I think it's likely that her relationship and motivations there would be difficult to explore in the space allotted for commenting, let alone the amount of time I have available for such things.
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February 27 2009, 11:11:17 UTC 3 years ago
Sorry I can't help out. I'm a grad student (aka slave labor) trying to live in the SF Bay Area...
February 27 2009, 14:36:56 UTC 3 years ago
February 27 2009, 15:20:14 UTC 3 years ago
February 27 2009, 16:29:28 UTC 3 years ago
I'm not saying nobody has, but what's important to one person is not what's important to everybody, which is why I finally decided to a survey to find out the broad trend. If I did what you suggest and, say, went to three updates a week, I'd have a number of pissed people saying "How come you don't update as often as you used to? Who cares WHEN they come, I want more story and if it's a pleasant surprise, so be it." just as right now I have people saying "You should just schedule fewer updates if you can't do it consistently."
Whose money should I chase? I guess if I had a big marketing department I could figure out which group has the higher income and is more willing to spend money or something, but I don't.
But you're right that I shouldn't promise and then not deliver... especially when what I'm promising doesn't seem that important to most of the people who do donate. You might notice my latest reminder doesn't make any such promise. I ask people to send money so I can keep writing for them. That's it. No greater promise than the fact that I'll keep the story/stories going. At the end of the day, that is my job. That's what I get paid for, that there will always be more to read about characters and worlds that people enjoy.
What the survey's telling me so far is that for most people, the important thing is that the updates are worth reading when they do arrive... neither consistent delivery nor frequent delivery are the biggest priorities, which means there's room to look for a compromise between them. If you read the preamble to this survey, you might have noticed that I'm planning on reworking the schedule based on the results.
So maybe you'll end up happy anyway... and maybe you'll send money as a result, and maybe somebody else who doesn't like the change will choose not to as a result. I don't think it's productive for me to think of every reader who doesn't pay in as lost money, though. If I were going to do that, I'd just charge up front.
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February 27 2009, 16:29:10 UTC 3 years ago
We don't see her acting as arrogant and privileged people normally do in our society because, as she says, her self-control is exponentially more developed than that of pretty much any surface dweller we've seen, so she preserves her courtesy even in the face of the grossest discourtesies and "barbarisms" of others. In addition, there's the old saying "it ain't bragging (or arrogance) if it's true"-- and since Dee actually is better than most other characters, the fact that she believes she's better is less off-putting than it might otherwise be. But still, she has a huge blind spot when it comes to how her privilege in society has influenced her relationships (with Darek, a male; Alea, a penniless orphan; and Dehsah, an "ornament") and that's most off-putting when it comes to her relationship with Dehsah, who is:
-Dee's former wet nurse
-vastly Dee's elder
-the "possession" of Dee's house, and a possession who could easily have been subjected to permanent crippling as a matter of course if she'd been born at the wrong time
-pretty much obligated to serve Dee as Dee sees fit
-currently abandoned, by the woman who originally elevated her beyond her "proper" sphere, to a society that probably sees that elevation as perverse and blames it at least partly on Dehsah
All these things-- the structure, if you will, of her relationship with Dee-- have perhaps prevented me from wondering about Dehsah as a person. But Dee's describing her (with Teddi's help) as "quirky" suddenly makes me want to know more about her personality. And like Dee a little more, too, for seeming to miss Dehsah as a person, and not just an ornamental possession (the whole "my pretty Dehsah" locution is probably the only one of Dee's that consistently skeeves me out).
Anyway, I'd love to see another Other Tale set in Dee's home and focusing on Dehsah.
Oh, and I wholeheartedly second whoever said that EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN HARLOWE needs weekly meetings with Teddi. Weekly, at least.
February 27 2009, 17:59:57 UTC 3 years ago
Also, Loving the Universe Icon ya got there.
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February 27 2009, 19:23:23 UTC 3 years ago
When you use the words "technically" and "supposed to" in the same sentence, I think it's a pretty good indicator that things aren't as they should be.
February 27 2009, 19:45:04 UTC 3 years ago
Has dealt cer, Dehsah is
ŦΨØ of a halfkind
Male and female have
Much in common but still there's
A vas deferens
Dee should take over
As Resident Advisor
Of Harlowe's 5th Floor
February 27 2009, 20:16:27 UTC 3 years ago
The one thing that made me curious was Teddi's reaction to the idea of circumcision - she knew immediately what it was. So now I wonder how often it is done on the surface, and whther there is a religion that is to Khersis as Judaism is to Christianity.
February 27 2009, 23:01:18 UTC 3 years ago
Such a tradition need not be tied to religion and may be dictated just as much by practicality (there's some hygienic rationale) or some sense of machismo (as appears to be the case here) for enduring such a rite of passage. Dee never mentioned or invoked her goddess in this regard, as she surely would have done had it had any religious significance.
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February 27 2009, 20:22:43 UTC 3 years ago
February 27 2009, 21:13:49 UTC 3 years ago
But it would really make me happy if among the options of what to be listed as (MU Alumni, 4B Registrant, etc.) was something Tribe-related. I know, I know, it hasn't had any updates for a while, but I continue to live in hope.
And hey, last time I checked the survey results, it was ranking higher in readership than Void Dogs or Star Harbor Nights! Not by much, but still...!
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February 28 2009, 00:08:30 UTC 3 years ago
March 2 2009, 15:19:27 UTC 3 years ago
February 28 2009, 02:10:29 UTC 3 years ago
Seems to be missing the word "sure"
February 28 2009, 21:12:48 UTC 3 years ago
Maybe I'm alone in this box but...
I would be more likely to donate if I didn't think you were overly defensive to criticism of your story/characters.You are not your writing. Please don't take criticism of it personally. I am a writer. I am a slam poet. People are going to disagree with my style and politics. I can't let that get to me, and I have to keep writing. You too, have to not let people's opinions of your work wear you down. You have to do what you want to do and not let other people stop you. I appreciate that. But when you blow off the readers who intensely dislike Amaranth or who get frustrated with your lack of updates or criticize something of the story, to the point of being snarky and mean to someone who just wants to comment an opinion different than adoration, you are going beyond being self-empowering and just being defensive and lashing out. I have been reading your story ever since I saw it on Something Positive, and I will keep reading it. I will tell other people about it, about the things I like and don't like. But I don't like being treated as if I'm attacking you when I'm expressing a negative opinion.
February 28 2009, 21:47:56 UTC 3 years ago
If this were true, I would never be doing anything besides being snarky and mean because I don't think I've yet written anything that's been universally adored. I pretty much only respond to people who argue for a change in the work ("You need to get rid of these chapters because nobody likes them!"), and that's to point out that other people feel differently and somebody probably hates whatever their favorite part of the story is.
I don't see that as defending my work or myself so much as defending the interests of all my readers.
I'd appreciate it if you could clarify what you mean by saying I've blown off people who dislike Amaranth... unless you mean that I never respond to their comments?
That's kind of weird since the rest of your comment is about the idea that I jump on people who don't like my stuff, but I don't know what else you could be talking about. I have a set policy on that: I don't comment on people's "takes" on a character, good or bad, because I'm not designing characters to be liked, I'm making them as people and letting readers take them as they will.
As for the rest? It's a tightrope. If I respond, DEFENSIVE. If I don't, DISMISSIVE. I personally think it's more respectful to address people's concerns than to give them the cold shoulder.
Right now I've got an email in my inbox from somebody who says I should stop posting explanations for the hectic scheduling because that's just making excuses and it's insulting.
Three emails up in the list from that is another one saying that it's okay when the schedule's a mess but I should make sure I explain why more often.
In responding to both of them, I'm going to mention the other's. Maybe they'll take this as me saying "You're wrong and here's proof.", as me being defensive and dismissive towards them...
...but I don't really see how else to not dismiss wide swaths of people if I don't keep everybody's opinions in view.
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March 1 2009, 07:44:31 UTC 3 years ago
Can't agree with you
QUOTE FROM AE: **...You might have noticed I've never told anybody who had either of those opinions or anything in between that they were wrong or had to keep them to themselves...**So, AE, that *wasn't* you that called one of your readers -- and I quote -- a "cockhole" because he persisted in/insisted on referring to Steff as "he"?
Actually, it *was* you....
And that's why I can't agree with your quote. I think calling someone a cockhole because of his expressed opinions does in fact rise to the level of telling [someone] that they were wrong or had to keep it to themselves.
That was several months ago -- before the comments purge -- but the insult was vivid and ugly enough that it's stuck with me. And no, I *can't* refer you to the exchange in question (lost when the comments were discarded)...but equally, I *can't* be the only reader who remembers it, if you feel inclined to ask around.
You do have crazy buttons...as do we all...but you're not above castigating and berating occasional readers for comments you find personally offensive. Saying "I never" or "I wouldn't" try to control your readers' expressed opinions of your characters is untrue and disingenuous -- and I find *that* disrespectful.
March 1 2009, 16:42:19 UTC 3 years ago
I say again.
Yeah, I remember you. You're the person who ignored everything I said on the subject EXCEPT cockhole in order to claim I was trying to protect the feelings of a fictional character over those of real readers.I say again:
Never have. Never would.
"You might have noticed I've never told anybody who had either of those opinions [from 'poor girl who can't find acceptance in society so lashes out' to 'fucked up self destructive cross breed cross dresser with no real sense of identity to begin with] or anything in between that they were wrong or had to keep them to themselves."
Never have. Never would.
I made ONE rule, for the personal comfort and dignity of my transgendered readers who were feeling insulted and alienated by the use of pronouns, and when a bunch of people didn't get it and didn't feel following that ONE rule, I gave 'em both barrels.
I didn't say they had to accept any opinion. I didn't say they weren't allowed to express their opinion of Steff. I said they had to use the pronouns that were appropriate for Steff's intended gender presentation.
Some of the people who were calling Steff "he" were very pointedly doing so not because of any well-thought out analysis of Steff's identity but from a point of view that biological sex is the sole determination of gender and that will not go on a board that bears my name. I couldn't very well say "only call Steff 'he' if you're being analytic rather than transphobic."
ONE rule. ONE rule about one of the smallest parts of speech in the English language. People can't follow that, people insist on behaving in a way that is insulting to a swath of population that 1) faces real oppression and 2) makes up a nice chunk of my readership, I'm going to insult them (since they don't care who they insult) and tell them to shut the fuck up.
March 2 2009, 01:07:07 UTC 3 years ago
Less venom, please
Yes, AE, I read all that the first time you posted it. I didn't agree with what you said then, and I don't agree with it now. And no, I didn't *ignore* everything but the grotesque insult you were throwing around, but it -- and the loss of control that it reflected -- was shocking enough to me to overshadow your avowed purpose.I wish I could have let this go, but an echo of that exchange has cropped up again...and it bothers me. A lot.
The character of Steff, in your story, is genetically male, possesses a penis and wants to have intercourse *using* that penis. You do not have Steff treating the penis as an alien body part, an aberration or a viscerally unwelcome reminder of the mistake that nature made in shaping "her" body. Steff likes having -- and using -- a penis.
Women do not centre their sexuality around having a penis. In your writing, Steff does. *I* can't see Steff as female. I see him as male.
A moment, please, before you erupt at the forbidden pronoun.
I have Turner's Syndrome. Yes, really. Technically, that makes me "intersex", even if it's a case of an incomplete X....
And yes, I was lucky; Turner's can be a lot worse in its manifestations. And NO, it doesn't have anything to do with causing mental retardation. I'm 5'3" and 180lbs -- so I could be doing better -- but my heart's sound (I have a heart murmur, but that's hardly exclusive to Turner's Syndrome patients), and I'm only having to take thyroid meds and estrogen -- so I could be doing a lot worse, too.
No, I can't have children...but my husband and I are pretty well past that age now anyway.
I'm not asking for your sympathy, AE -- but as someone who *is* intersexed, I also don't want you "defending" me. I don't want you hurling obscenities at other people for "my" sake or on "my" behalf; I can fight my own damn battles, thank you very much, and this one wouldn't have been worth my attention, if you hadn't started swearing and spewing vitriol at someone I thought actually had a point.
You have to get over your notion of "intersex" being a monolithic phenomenon, AE. We're not all the same. I'm a person, who happens to have a damaged chromosome. I know people who happen to be gay, or happen to be transgender. Like *me*, they're people first and everything else second. That's what we've chosen. And while you might be a spokesperson for some intersex people, or even for many, you don't speak for me.
So are intersex people who think Steff comes across as male allowed to call him "he"...or not? Or are we guilty of being insulting to intersex readers as well if we do?
March 2 2009, 02:11:16 UTC 3 years ago
Re: Less venom, please
I'm not AE, but no, by the rules, you're not allowed to call Steff a "he". I don't recall any Turner's Exemption to that rule.And considering the number of transgender people who do consider themselves to be in permanent transition...including those who don't consider their bodies aberrant, only not in line with their gender identity...and the cis women who do center their sexuality around being the penetrator, I think your assertions are kind of absurd, even if you do have Turner's. Are my transfolk not really trans if they don't spend every minute of every day wanting their genitals corrected? Are they not really trans if they still have sex using the genitals they've got? Or are they only not really trans if they don't intend to change them? Because I know a couple who would, by your definitions as stated above, not deserve to be called by the pronouns they prefer...but there's quite a few people, trans AND cis, who would get allllll over you if you suggested that your personal definitions should supplant their wishes when it comes to referring to their gender, not least because it's, well, damn rude, and not your call.
I mean, shit, I get pissed off when people call me the diminutives of my given name, because they aren't my name. I can't imagine how infuriating it would be to be called out of both my name and my gender, irrespective of my biological sex, because someone thought I wasn't sufficiently detached from the body I've got to qualify to call myself by my preferred gender pronoun. To assume that you know the proper criteria by which someone can be adjudged trans enough to deserve respectful address is awfully presumptuous on your part, if you want to know the truth.
Nothing makes it somehow "OK" to call people out of their preferred form of address. Admittedly, when the person in question is fictional, it's a little harder to call foul...unless you think back to the transgender (and cisgender) readers who thanked AE for putting a stop to that practice because it made them uncomfortable.
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March 2 2009, 02:24:54 UTC 3 years ago
Thank-you
Thanks for taking the time to reply, but the question wasn't directed to anyone but the author. In future, I'll email her directly to avoid confusion.March 2 2009, 02:58:19 UTC 3 years ago
Re: Thank-you
Please, if you're going to participate in the conversation further, use the "reply" link on the individual post to which you are responding. Otherwise, each new comment you make is a separate thread, not connected to any other.3 years ago